Mattio Martinez returns to talk with Charles and Isaac about the "imperial phase:" the segment of certain artists's careers when they are at their critical, commercial, and cultural peak. More interestingly, the show focuses on the post-imperial phase, where the artist feels most free to create but almost always ends up making something weird.
Examples cited: Garth Brooks' alter ego Chris Gaines, the films of Steven Spielberg from AI onwards, and whether Kanye has exited his imperial phase.
Also discussed: Mattio's drag experience and his distaste for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Wikipedia on the imperial phase - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_phase
FT on the end of incrementalism - https://www.ft.com/content/12ab216c-1587-11e9-a581-4ff78404524e